There was a time when I would have had to sit quietly and and listen to all the family shitlibs expound on stuff like this. In their world, guns accidentally go off all the time for no reason, and if a dreamy movie star like Alec Baldwin can't handle them - how can an ordinary stubfart or Fudd be expected to do it? Why - anyone that actually wants to shoot an icky gun has issues! I never told them to FOAD back then - but I do now. No conversation is better than a dumb one with those kinds of people. Any conversation with gun grabbers starts and ends with two words.
So still, I am not sure what happened here. They say the killing was done with a 'prop gun'. To me a prop gun is a facsimile that doesn't actually fire live ammunition. Typically they get brought out in scenes where the guns get thrown around, dropped or abused. They tend to be pretty good too - I saw the one for Jurrasic Park - a hard rubber rendition of the Marlin Guide Gun. It was a dead wringer for the real gun - you'd have to get your nose right up to it to see the imposture. If a gun accepts live ammo and fires it... sorry, it ain't a 'prop gun'.
Much as I'd like to see Baldwin take the fall - he is likely innocent. If the killing involved live ammo, somebody else in charge of the guns committed murder. The person that loaded the gun is the perp. Plain and simple.
I am not familiar with blanks, but I am told that they can be lethal too at very close ranges. If the killing was with blank ammo... then maybe Baldwin CAN be hung out to dry. A man in his position should be familiar with blanks and prop guns, and if he hurt someone with blanks - he should be punished for it. With blanks I can shoot one at you from a few yards away and it will be harmless. If I hold a gun firing blanks to your head - up close - yep, you are going to get hurt.
It's going to be fun to watch the gun grabbers try and spin this one. Baldwin is a major fart catcher for the communist left - and I won't pretend that I don't enjoy watching him squirm. At the very least I hope it ruins his career.
Alec is a documented hotheaded bully and jerk who has assaulted several people in the past. Maybe he didn't know there was a live round in the cylinder when he got pissed off at someone on the set and vented by pointing the weapon and pulling the trigger.The pathetic Hollywood Liberal is still criminally and civilly culpable, but he'll get a pass from the prosecutor.ReplyDelete
Baldwin had control of the firearm and that makes him 100% at fault. Regardless of who else may have been involved. Single Action Revolver, he had to cock the hammer, point the gun, pull the trigger. Not once but twice.ReplyDelete
he fired downrange it went through the belly of the first person killing them then hit another person in the shoulder, it was a single shot. The second person was kneeling behind the first.Delete
There is very little hard information out there, most everything is speculation at this point. So ....ReplyDelete
The movie is a western set in the 1880's. So we can assume the gun is a single action revolver, most likely a Colt Peacemaker or similar.
First of all, the gun was given to him loaded with live cartridges. This is a major f*#@up, and I would have to say that whoever was in charge of gun handling on set was incompetent and possibly criminally liable.
Second, Baldwin did not check the gun himself, may not have known how, but it would be clear that he had to cock the hammer, point the gun and pull the trigger. That's not a simple "the gun went off by itself" , it was deliberate action on his part.
What a crapfest. Regardless of your opinions of Baldwin or Hollywood in general (mine are pretty low already), the fact remains that an innocent woman is dead and another person is seriously injured.
That's not a mistake, NM. That is murder. If somebody slipped them in on him, then Baldwin was merely a tool (HAR HAR HAR) and at most is up on accessory or negligence charges.Delete
Now I am hearing that the prop manager was a chicken headed ditz of a woman who literally cannot tell the difference between blank and loaded ammo. I find that a bit of the stretch... but you can't believe anything in the press anymore. My question is the cops are suspiciously silent. I think they are keeping quiet because they are going to sweep this under the rug.
When someone gives you a firearm saying it's empty.......you check and confirm that's the case because YOU are now in charge of it!ReplyDelete
Glen is maybe on to something here. The “Baldwin Prop Defense “. When is a gun not a gun? When it’s a prop. Heard the media describe it as “the prop gun misfired and the ammunition flew out and struck the cinematographer.”ReplyDelete
Drive drunk and kill somebody? Innocent. You were using the car as a prop.
That said, Baldwin has to feel terrible-beyond words. He pointed a gun at a living human being, probably someone he liked, pulled the trigger, shot her and she died.
“I thought the gun was empty.” Is right up there with “Here, hold my beer.” When it comes to tragedy.
For everyone saying that Alec isn't responsible are ignorant of what the unions and laws state. This is from Actors Equity Association and you can see how badly Alec failed.ReplyDelete
SAFETY TIPS FOR USE OF FIREARMS
Use simulated or dummy weapons whenever possible.
Treat all guns as if they are loaded and deadly.
Unless you are actually performing or rehearsing, the property master must secure all firearms.
The property master or armorer should carefully train you in the safe use of any firearm you must handle. Be honest if you have no knowledge about guns. Do not overstate your qualifications.
Follow all instructions given by the qualified instructor.
Never engage in horseplay with any firearms or other weapons. Do not let others handle the gun for any reason.
All loading of firearms must be done by the property master, armorer or experienced persons working under their direct supervision.
Never point a firearm at anyone including yourself. Always cheat the shot by aiming to the right or left of the target character. If asked to point and shoot directly at a living target, consult with the property master or armorer for the prescribed safety procedures.
If you are the intended target of a gunshot, make sure that the person firing at you has followed all these safety procedures.
If you are required to wear exploding blood squibs, make sure there is a bulletproof vest or other solid protection between you and the blast packet.
Use protective shields for all off stage cast within close proximity to any shots fired.
Appropriate ear protection should be offered to the cast members and stage managers.
Check the firearm every time you take possession of it. Before each use, make sure the gun has been test-fired off stage and then ask to test fire it yourself. Watch the prop master check the cylinders and barrel to be sure no foreign object or dummy bullet has become lodged inside.
Blanks are extremely dangerous. Even though they do not fire bullets out of the gun barrel, they still have a powerful blast than can maim or kill.
Never attempt to adjust, modify or repair a firearm yourself. If a weapon jams or malfunctions, corrections shall be made only by a qualified person.
When a scene is completed, the property master shall unload the firearms. All weapons must be cleaned, checked and inventoried after each performance.
Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre.
If you are in a production where shots are to be fired and there is no qualified property master, go to the nearest phone and call Actors' Equity Association. A union representative will make sure proper procedures are followed.
State and federal safety laws must be honored at all times.
If any of the above safety tips conflict with the instructions given by a qualified instructor, abide by the instructions from the qualified instructor. If you are still not sure, contact your Equity Business Representative.
The gun in question was a cap and ball revolver. AESOP at "The Raconteur Report" is a nurse who worked as a set medic on many TV and movie productions. Also a gun guy with extensive training, the armorers often asked him to assist. Here's what he has to say.ReplyDelete
Yep. Aesop is also an aeronautical engineer, and expert on math, statistics, and medical science, a lawyer, an accomplished histologist and pathologist with dabblings in military and law enforcement expertise.Delete
I don't think any of that is required here. We need to know if there was live ammo in the gun - I have not heard solid confirmation of that - and then we need to know who loaded the firearm with it.
If our courts actually worked - after that the rest is quite simple.
He sounds like quite the cat. Its the first time I have visited his blog referenced in another one discussing the topic. And while I would really love to see Baldwin's skull crushed with a baseball bat till he assumes room temperature, Aesop makes a cogent argument as to why the jerk is not guilty. Legally it is the armorer's responsibility to ensure no live rounds are in the gun when he hands it to the actor. For whatever reason that did not happen. The firearm in question was a cap and ball revolver. Presumably no brass cases. We don't know if it was a conversion using brass cased ammo. Different scenarios.Delete
That said the armorer was 24 yr old bimbo and this was only her second time doing the job. Several folks had just walked off the set the previous day as there were two previous occasions when unintended live rounds were fired during filming.
I have also heard mention that apparently they were using the guns for plinking between filming sessions and that would explain how a loaded chamber was left in the gun. A 24 yr old new to the job who did not have the wherewithal to say to the ever so cocky Baldwin NO, you are not allowed to do that?
Baldwin was the producer of this film and that makes him responsible for who he hired or fired to fulfill the legally required positions in the production. There is also mention that he had fired some union staff and replaced them with non union. What disagreement led to that and what roles did these people play in it all, we don't know yet.
question is why live ammo on set? was there a scene requiring it?ReplyDelete
By some accounts, Baldwin is an abusive bully and treats the staff horribly. The union labor employed on the set walked out, citing safety concerns. The show must go on, so they were using non-union labor.ReplyDelete
So-called 'prop guns' run the gamut from plastic toys up to and including something you'd take to the range. The real thing, in other words.
I think it's likely that someone in union labor slipped a live round or six into the armory, thinking that it would go off and kill some piece of equipment. Well, it went off alright...
The cops are doing what you'd expect, as is the cast and crew. My only caveat is this: If anyone hands me a firearm the very first thing I do is point it in a safe direction and break it open. I'll see for myself if it's loaded or not.
My own vivid memory is being out at the trap field with about 40 other men, all of whom handled firearms all their lives, and one man wanted to play show and tell with his new pump shotgun. He ran the slide and passed it over to another guy, who ran the slide again - and live rounds came out.
"The gun is always loaded," one man remarked.
I'll repeat what I said over at OldNFO's place:ReplyDelete
As much as I dislike Alec Baldwin, he deserves the same benefit of the doubt as the rest of us. Until all the facts come out, I refuse to judge what he might or might not have done.
I don't know exactly what happened and neither do you.
And never forget, you cannot trust ANYTHING coming from the media, especially if it originates from some unnamed “Union Spokesman”.
Given the people involved… we may never know what happened either…