“This gun is everything the 1911 should have been…”???
Haarrrrumpfpfppfffff!!!
This bitch needs to go to the fuggin woodshed!!!
🤬
It’s an obsolete design of no real merit that stuck around long, long past it’s expiration date. In my neck of the woods, surplus Browning High Powers were a dime a dozen. There’s nothing inherently wrong with it … but there’s nothing especially great about them either. And….9mm? There are far, far better ways to do 9mm:
…and maybe… possibly…
Like the Browning High Power, the 9mm cartridge is largely obsolete too. Us civilians have access to far better guns and calibres. The only valid reason to shoot 9mm is out of nostalgia and romance!
If you absolutely insist on the 9mm for modern social work… there are far better choices than the Browning.
There’s other Tupperware guns out there - I think Jack is carrying that new Ruger, and others can be had from S&W, Springfield, etc. If you have a Highpower, shoot it and smile. There is no need to sell it. But there’s no crushing need to dash out and buy one either.
Holeeee shit, where to start, well, the reverse engineered Inglis No. 1, was definitely a yawner. They were about $300 US when I last saw them surplus, very uninspiring. The CZ, great gun. Broom handle, Luger, wouldn't bet my life on them, won't shoot hollow points, unreliable. A tupper ware gun? Yep, my daily carry(but uninspiring). Unfortunately I sold an awesome 1969 SA35 Before I knew it's awsomeness. I will be getting a new Springfield Armory SA35.
ReplyDeleteFor being a gunny, you apparently missed out on the developments in bullet design improvements over the last 10+ years. The 9 is indistinguishable from 40-45 wound trauma with modern loads. That's why FBI, police, have mostly gone back to the 9. Add to that, MOAR BB's(for multiple bad guys), less recoil, faster follow up shots, longer range, cheaper, less noise and 27 other things I can't remember right now. So Their! Guess I showed you a thing or not. Or TWO, I meant two!
BUT, I understand where you're coming from. I love the 1911, I've had more than I can remember. Plus the obligatory "they all fall to hard ball", and yeah, 9mm ball is mealy irritating if shot by one or three. That's why I buy modern 9mil fight stopper's. Now that you've been thoroughly drubbed, I'll concede all you other opinions are, of course, flawless. I'm really old, so I know almost as much as gawd. With Love, Tree Mike
It depends on what we’re talking about Mike. For social work, yeah, the 45 and 9mm are both obsolete. If I had to fight with a gun I’d go 10mm all the way. To argue about whether the 9 is better than the 45 is foolish - as you note, on the nasty end they are much the same.
DeleteBut for casual shooting, we can do much better with slow moving, cheap cast lead boolits in 45 than we can in the faster 9. The choice for dedicated target guns is better with the 45 too. Other than that it remains 6 of one, and half a dozen of the other.
In the end the only one we have to impress is the bum in the mirror, right? If his gun is a Highpower… he could do much worse.😉
Well.. It's kinda hard to argue with you, so I guess I won't. I don't want to get drubbed. This is so far back in the weeds, no one will see it but you, just want you to know some of us appreciate yer wide ranging blog. I'm so old, I've lived long enough to like wobbly Welby's.
DeleteGlen,
ReplyDeleteI couldn't post this as a comment under your earlier Finegrind Coffee entry:
You should try the Clever Coffee Dripper. Kind of like a French Press but with a paper No. 4 Krups filter on top. Has a plug on bottom that releases the coffee when you sit it on a mug after you steep for 3:30 mins. or so.:
https://www.amazon.com/Clever-Coffee-Dripper-Baristas-Choice/dp/B081GQQ7NH?th=1
There's a vid on Amazon that shows how it works. I have two so far. Get it in black to hide the coffee stains.
OK. They are Melitta #4 filters these days. They recommend two mins. steep in the instructions, but 3:30 makes a good dark cup.
ReplyDeleteI will check it out SLF!!!!
DeleteNo use for a 9mm? Just wait a bit. Old age gets stiff fingers/wrist.... I always carried a 357 full load 158gr in a Ruger Security Six. Had problems and switched to a Glock 23 and 22. Used this for over twenty years. Had problems. Went to a Glock 19. Only used these for 5 or 6 years. Had problems. Now on a 380. Using a Bersa Thunder helped a lot. Good size grip and shape. Just scared me to use such a weak pill but I can hit what I want to. No problems yet but I see a 22 in my future. If I live that long. I am past the crusty old fart stage. If I fart now I have to go check...... Pisses me off. I wanted to be that 95yo turd shot out of a 40yo housewife's window by a irate husband, trousers in hand...that "if I can't go out with a bang, go out with another bang". What a way to be remembered.
ReplyDeleteFFS. I hear ya . Do you know I am getting arthritis is my hands? It started in my trigger finger, of course. The pain is starting to spread, now. Until it gets excruciating… I will stick with my 45’s. And if I can’t shoot those… a 22 can still ruin your day…
DeleteHey, the three most important things about bullets and buildings are the same - location, location, location. A .22lr to the eye is worth more than a .44 to the arm.
ReplyDeleteTree Mike is correct. According to thousands of hospital visits, the 9mm is a decent round, especially with modern jacketed hollowpoint ammunition. It won't get through decent body armor, but the same body armor will stop a .45 too. I love my hand cannon, but the Ruger Security 9 is what I train with the most and reach for first.
Yes and no. The 45 and 9 are almost neck and neck for producing one shot stops in armed conflicts. The big magnum revolvers (357, 41, and 44) do much better though, in the hands of people trained to handle them. The pussier law enforcement agencies shy away from them citing problems with over-penetration… and I am not sure how valid that is.
DeleteNow Anonymous, there's a man after my own heart. Live to be 95 and be shot by a jealous husband.
ReplyDeleteMy right front pocket is occupied by a .380 Ruger LCP 2 in a sticky holster. It doesn't print, and it's a bit slow to draw, but I've shot it and I can hit stuff with it.
When I pass out every night the pistol in my nightstand is an S&W 686 .357 with red hot loads. Old Cody sold me a box for self-defense. He said, "Here Jack, these have got some snort to 'em." When I took it down to the range and torched one off, it sounded like a canon. There was a big ball of flame at the end of the barrel and I about set the target on fire. Got a lot of looks over that one.
My pistol of choice, if shit ever came to sweat, is Betsy. She's a Springfield 1911 in .45, and she'll eat anything you put in the mag. The trigger pull on Betsy will teach you to keep your booger hook off the bang switch the first time you put anything down range. And the best part? You can pistol whip the bad guy, watch his teeth hit the floor, and know that Betsy is right there, just waiting to put a hot .45 slug into the bad guy's intestines. I use a shoulder rig with three spare mags on the right side.
My brother California Dave owns the broomstick Mauser and a Luger, and they both shoot well enough, and they are really cool looking, but me, I'm sticking with Betsy.
When did you get a 686, you old reprobate? I came within a hair of buying one ages ago but didn’t follow through on it. Biggest mistake I ever made too…
DeleteI bought it years ago. I was at a gun show, and it was eventually priced right - $300 cash and carry. Outside of the occasional trip to the range, it stays in my nightstand.
DeleteA few years down the road I found a Colt Trooper revolver at a gun show. Again, $300 cash and carry. I couldn't resist, and as a wise old cowboy once told me, "Jack, you'll never reload faster than when you pick up another gun."
So there we have it.
“Social work” I like that.
ReplyDeleteiPad has lost its mind, sorry.
ReplyDeleteNo, it’s my blog, maybe? I do it too all the time…
ReplyDeleteYea 9mm, they will just bounce off ya like spitballs. Useless things. So useless that Cabelas has a crapload of police trade in Glocks and S&W M&Ps all in 40 cal for 380$ cause they are all going back to the 9. And guess what? All those 40 call trade ins they have been sitting there now for about three months and no one is touching them cause you can't find any ammo or even components to make ammo with.
ReplyDeleteThey’re going back to the 9 because they are too cheap and stupid to train their people up on more powerful guns, Mike. If I were a cop (and younger) I’d carry a 686 with a 4” barrel, or better yet, a S&W 41 magnum. Elmer Kieth knew what he was doing when he invented that cartridge.
DeleteIf I was a squaddie I’d go with the 10mm. But these guns take extra training and commitment to shoot well, and truth to tell… the majority of cops and squaddies don’t spend enough time on the range as it is. But whadda I know? I am just a gun club stubfart with an arsehole and an opinion, and the opinion is worth exactly what ya paid for it.
The point is that in the last fifteen years projectile design has improved to the point where it makes little to no difference. If you really need a projectile to deliver more kinetic energy than that, its time to think about the long gun in the trunk of the patrol car. Most plastic fantastic 9mm magazines have 17 round capacity these days. That's a lot more than the larger calibers allow. And cost IS a factor when you have to budget training and qualifications for 3000 officers twice a year. In the end even a 22 in the CPU will stop the threat.
DeleteAll true of course.
DeleteBut:
The squaddies cannot use those wonder bullets because they Geneva Convention forbids them. Can cops...? I would also quibble with the idea that if your "handgun can't solve the problem... it's time for a longrifle..." That may not always be an option, and prudence would have that you train for the worst case scenario. If you are good at pistolcraft, the presence of long guns at close range is irrelevant.
But I concede that I may be full of chit too. It's a problem I struggle with often! :)
It is an interesting argument and as you say... at the end of the day, even the lowly 22 will solve a good 80% of bad manners and problems with risk assessment. The 45 and the 9 are adequate for close in work... but a powerful pistol, in the hands of a capable shooter - will deal with threats much further out.
Don't know how it applies to the military. I am pretty sure at least US police are not beholding to any Geneva convention. And modern 9mm projectiles blossom out more than any round nose.45 when they hit tissue. In the end its all about effective energy transfer. Mass and speed are the two operational elements to increase that figure. More of either gets you more damage on the target. So it all boils down to what compromise we are willing to make. In the end if the operator don't hit the CPU, its main wiring line or the pump house neither round will be guaranteed to stop the threat instantly. For most normal carbon based life forms any kind of metal injection will cause them at the very least to redirect their focus and goals thereby buying you time to get out of the way.
DeleteI would not want to be at the receiving end of any one of these. (30 second long clips)
DeleteSlo-Mo 9mm 90 grain Hydrashock in ballistic gelatin https://youtu.be/tNu1hsrATOo
Slo Mo 9mm Hornady 90gr XTP in ballistic gelatinhttps://youtu.be/jexyDDA3TBU
Slo mo 9mm Fiocchi 100gr FMJTC in ballistic gel
https://youtu.be/CXTNynOFpLk
"Contrary to popular belief, not all hollow point cartridges are banned for military use – the US military has this option for their handguns and apparently, it does not violate any conventions."
Deletehttps://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/03/31/us-armys-new-m1153-special-purpose-9mm-hollow-point-ammo-tested/
Gimme a Walther P-38 over the toggle top any day.
ReplyDeleteWell, aren't you a grumpy old man today? The Hi-Power is a good design and the 9mm is adequate for most applications. Terminal ballistics are about bullet selection and shot placement. I've owned 4 and all three in 9mm were reliable, accurate, and pleasant to shoot. The version in 40 S&W was extremely difficult to charge, due to the double helix recoil spring required to compensate for the stiffer recoil. I sold that one, but still have one in 9mm with improved sights. Gave one to me son as well.
ReplyDeleteI seem to have tripped over my own dink, Craig. I am not a hater of the Highpower; I am more like… indifferent. To me it is not a ‘great’ gun like the CZ is, and the 9mm is… adequate. If you’re playing on the range, and it floats your boat… that’s all that counts.
DeleteI seem to have tripped over my own dink, Craig. I am not a hater of the Highpower; I am more like… indifferent. To me it is not a ‘great’ gun like the CZ is, and the 9mm is… adequate. If you’re playing on the range, and it floats your boat… that’s all that counts.
DeleteI have a Hi-Power for a few reasons...it operates like my 1911 (muscle memory), 9mm is cheaper to shoot...and having a firearm in a common caliber as the cops and military is a logistical decision. About your CZ...I'm going to have to try the CZ one day (my niece has one, maybe she will loan it to me). I've never heard a negative comment about it. Jeff Cooper liked it, so that establishes is bonafides, though he wanted it in 10mm. But he hunted in the Okavango too.
Delete